Emmegas ICS-03 does not hold idle or does not inject correctly

Hello,

I.am new here and am looking for some advise about Emmegas ICS-03. Maybe some general advises would be good as well.
I. own a Scenic 2 (1.6,16V) that has Emmegas ICS-03. I got the car last year and the gas was out. i replaced the following:
1. LPG Tank - was expired.
2. Vaporized (Reducer) to fit the new LPG tank.

Things went well for some time but then i started to fail. It was no longer stable at idle point. Each time the engine would stop.
Went back to service and they fixed it. Worked another month or so then dead again.

Last time (July this year) i replaced the injectors (repair kit) and for a few days it went well. Then it died again.
I need some advice as i don't want to go back to the only service that i have in my area (and is willing to take care of this system) because i'm just wasting money and time. Also i don't really like how they work: i got one filter damaged because they placed in a bad place. Now i am about to change other two hoses because they are a bit damaged (again, the position is bad).

These days i hooked up the diagnose interface on the system and i got the temperature sensor error. I fixed that and i can use the LPG again but it is not stable.

What i need to know for this LPG system or in generally:

- What is the pressure that should be used at injection ramp (before injectors) coming from reducer?
- Do i need lambda to be hooked into the system? Engine is Euro4 class. I have no readings about the lambda probe on LPG system.
-Why do i need to take vaccum hose to the vaporizer / reducer? I seen that in my case they use a T splitter coming from admission/intake. One end goes to AEB025 sensor and the other goes to reducer / vaporizer.
- Why is there only one wire connected to 1st coil (cylinder of the engine)? I know that is should get the sync for injection but the software is configured to use TwoCoils.
-Can AEB025 sensor be defective and report wrong values to ECU?

I have an image (uploaded) with the parameters).

How can i make the idling stable and injection (acceleration/deacceleration) smooth?

Thank you!!!

 

Hi Rohwi, Martin!
Thank you for replying back so fast. I will try to provide some answers below. Understood most of your answers now and i also studied how the system interfaces with the original petrol installation.

"What kind of injectors are they ? Valtek ? "
MC1000: I assume the are the original injectors as they are green (not a proper indication) and 3ohm resistance markings.

"Didi you set the stroke to 0,5mm? That is important for correct working."
MC1000: No, i did not. The service guy only changed the spring and the piston. Coils remained the same. I think the repair kit was from Valtek.

The reducer recorded pressures from 1.5 to 2.2 Bar... Or so.

"The vacuum hose on reducer make sure, that the different pressure is constant."
Then i need to check if the second hose is properly connected to reducer.

"Show the map, please."
Will do. I need to get back home and will diagnose again the system. Will put up the map here. Will post all the screens with relevant info here, as well.

Thank you, once again, for all your help !!!

 

Hi again !
The map is here:

I also made a video recording of how does it change the values.

The car was not moving at all. Engine was just started up.
I need to mention that i have no issues running on petrol. It's working as it should.

"A question is, will the absolute or different pressure showing in software? I don’t know."
I don't really know what to say. The pressure of gas is measured thourgh AEB025 sensor and the input for this is taken from the injection rail, connected to Pres. nozzle port of the sensor. The V. port of the sensor is connected to intake admission and to reducer (i only checked visually the hose and looks ok).

How to reduce the gas presure to 1.0-1.3Bar ? I saw, on the internet, that on the reducer i should have a screw...Is this correct?

 

Hi!
Yes, the reduce was replaced to fit the new tank (this is what they told me). And it is replaced as i have the old one at home.
How do i fine tune the map to fit the correct injection?

Thank you!

 

Hi,
If you refer to stft1 and ltft1 when you ask about trim:
Values on lpg below:
STFT1: -100
LTFT1: 16.4
Values on petrol below:
STFT1: -4.7
LTFT1: 16.4
On petrol these values are changing often while i am standing or driving. On LPG they don't really change that much.

Other things i noticed is for the lambda probes.
On Petrol they tend to change between 0.2 and 0.9v, depending on the situation.
On LPG they jump to 0.9 and remain there ...

So i think it injects too much gas ?

Thanks!

 

Hi !
Sorry for my long absence but i was unable to work on the car last weeks. I did managed to find the screw to reduce the pressure and i did reduced it but there is something wrong there.
I found some hoses that need to be replaced. The vacuum hose was broken at the reducer. Also i need to re-make the electrical wires as they were installed bad.
Also, i think that the reservoir sensor is not configured correctly.
I have made a short shopping list:
- 4mm hose with end fittings
- 5mm hose with end fittings (in case that the one of 4mm is not proper)
- T junction for vacuum hose that should split from the intake to AEB25 sensor and the reducer.
- Gas temperature sensor. But here i need your advice.

I want to replace the current hose as it is very short. Also i intend to remake the connection on the gas hose because it is poorly fixed and the gas filter is scrubbing against metal parts and after some time it gets a hole.
Reducer is Tomasetto Achille AT09.

Do all gas temperature sensor share the same values ?
The gas temperature sensor that i have is integrated in the injection rail. The replacement that i could find is T like and it should be fitted on the hose coming from reducer to the injection rail. This is what i intend to buy: gazmagazin.ro/en/sensors/ac-stag-gas-temperature-sensor.html .

Thank you!

 

ECU is reporting wrong values for the gas temperature. I found that sensor's wires were... twisted and isolated with regular band. Because of that those two wires were in contact and sensor reported 20-40-60 and then - 80 / - 20 degrees or so. At the moment, i repaired the wires but it is not a permanent fix. I still suspect that the sensor might be bad.

About the vacuum hose, you should be right. I cut the broken part and remade the connection to reducer. This morning it worked ok on gas but i need to buy new hose as this is quite short and i want to re-make the entire connection to MAP sensor and intake.

I need to find a sunny day over the weekend to check the gas level sensor from the gas reservoir and the hose + electrical wires. I found that there is big mess and the wires are not properly protected.

 

Hi !
I measured (yesterday, ~18-19 degrees) and i got around 4.5k on the sensor. It's a bit hard these days, as i have low temperatures outside. Will try to make additional measures and, hopefully, the sensor will be the one with 4.7K...

 

Hello all,

I have not replied since last year as i have not used the LPG installation. Based on your feedback i did some adjustments but each time i failed to keep it working. The ICS-03 would not keep idle and it would not calibrate at all.
Even so, i have done the following:
- replaced emperature sensors ( water, on the AT09 reducer and ramp gas temperature sensor): nothing changed
- re-wired the sensors as the old wiring was somehow burnt cooper. Don't understood why. Nothing changed.
After these two steps, i did get stable values for the sensors but that is all.
- replaced the injection ramp with a new one from another card i was using (in good working condition): still the same issue.
This was the last step to be done with the ICS-03. I decided to replace the entire electrical part. The donor was my old card with Landi renzo (used about 50.000km on that car).

I have replaced the following:
- injection ramp from Landi. Changed all the hoses (vaccum and gas) with new ones.
- removed the old AEB25 senzor and fitted the Landi renzo sensor. I have connected all the hoses according to installation manual.
- replaced the electrical part of Emmegas with the one from Landi. I have replaced the wiring from LPG tank (power + sensor cabling) and connected them accordingly.
- all sensors connected + coil signal + injector harness + petrol injection modifications in order to work.
- all hoses got new clamps just to be sure that they are not leaking out gas.

So, to summarize, i have checked the LPG cooper pipes, reducer, sensors, electrical harness and hoses. All up to injection point in the engine. There is no gas leaking or bad electrical joint.

So i powered the engine and let it go on LPG. First time, got off. I assume it had not enough gas to push in. Second time, it went on and switched to GAS. Well, it stayed on and working fine. Idling was fine. I had some trips and now i need to adjust it once more as it's not working properly.

while i am running on LPG, the engine goes off while idling. It starts fine, switches on LPG, then it keeps the idle ok for a while. After some time (not that much) it start to rattle (hoppefully this is the correct term). It tries to compensate several times: goes to 200-300 rpm, then goes up to 700-900 and so. After a few of these correction it dies.
It is similar with the issue that i had on ICS-03 but less affecting.

The only thing i was not able to check was the hoses coming into engine admission. This is, because of the position. As i am having the K4M engine, the admision intake is composed of two parts: the plastic top side (or it might be from another material, similar with plastic) and the aluminium part that is between top part and engine block. They stuck the injection on that aluminium part.
Injector A -> Hose is well tighten. At injector side, all is fine, clamped as it should. I cannot see the engine side of the hose.
Injector B -> Hose is well tighten. At injector side, all is fine, clamped as it should. I cannot see the engine side of the hose.
Injector C -> Hose is well tighten. At injector side, all is fine, clamped as it should. I cannot see the engine side of the hose.
Injector D ->Hose is not that tighten. At injector side, all is fine, clamped as it should. I cannot see the engine side of the hose but i can feel that it is moving if i try to rotate it. It does not stay in a fixed position. I do not know if the hose is bad there or if the injection nozzle moves.

There is no actual smell of gas in that area.

I am decide to go to a local LPG service as they usually do Landi Renzo but just wanted to know if there are things to check before...

Sorry for my long message but i hope it helps others. Also, sorry for very late (6m+) reply.

Best regards,
MC