Emmegas ICS-03 does not hold idle or does not inject correctly

Diskutiere Emmegas ICS-03 does not hold idle or does not inject correctly im Autogas Anlagen Forum im Bereich LPG Autogas; Hello, I.am new here and am looking for some advise about Emmegas ICS-03. Maybe some general advises would be good as well. I. own a Scenic 2...

  1. mc1000

    mc1000 AutogasTestSchreiber

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    Hello,

    I.am new here and am looking for some advise about Emmegas ICS-03. Maybe some general advises would be good as well.
    I. own a Scenic 2 (1.6,16V) that has Emmegas ICS-03. I got the car last year and the gas was out. i replaced the following:
    1. LPG Tank - was expired.
    2. Vaporized (Reducer) to fit the new LPG tank.

    Things went well for some time but then i started to fail. It was no longer stable at idle point. Each time the engine would stop.
    Went back to service and they fixed it. Worked another month or so then dead again.

    Last time (July this year) i replaced the injectors (repair kit) and for a few days it went well. Then it died again.
    I need some advice as i don't want to go back to the only service that i have in my area (and is willing to take care of this system) because i'm just wasting money and time. Also i don't really like how they work: i got one filter damaged because they placed in a bad place. Now i am about to change other two hoses because they are a bit damaged (again, the position is bad).

    These days i hooked up the diagnose interface on the system and i got the temperature sensor error. I fixed that and i can use the LPG again but it is not stable.

    What i need to know for this LPG system or in generally:

    - What is the pressure that should be used at injection ramp (before injectors) coming from reducer?
    - Do i need lambda to be hooked into the system? Engine is Euro4 class. I have no readings about the lambda probe on LPG system.
    -Why do i need to take vaccum hose to the vaporizer / reducer? I seen that in my case they use a T splitter coming from admission/intake. One end goes to AEB025 sensor and the other goes to reducer / vaporizer.
    - Why is there only one wire connected to 1st coil (cylinder of the engine)? I know that is should get the sync for injection but the software is configured to use TwoCoils.
    -Can AEB025 sensor be defective and report wrong values to ECU?

    I have an image (uploaded) with the parameters).

    How can i make the idling stable and injection (acceleration/deacceleration) smooth?

    Thank you!!!
     

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  3. Rohwi

    Rohwi FragenBeantworter

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    Hello...
    The one wire to Ignitioncoil 1 is the sensing that the engine is running. The rev s are correct in the readings , so it is the right setting.
    The wire is only th detect a running engine. There is no timing. so it is correct.
    It seems the vacuumhose is not connected th the vaporiser. The gaspressure is too high. If it is connected the vaporiser holds the gas pressure stable to the intakevalves .It schould be 1 bar , maybe in te soft it is presented as pressure against surround pressure. Then it should be at 1,5 bar at idle.
    The gaspressure must be measured at the engine running on Gas.
    You refurbished the Gasinjectors. What kind of injectors are they ? Valtek ? Didi you set the stroke to 0,5mm? That is important for correct working.

    So much questions.

    with kind regards
    Rohwi
     
  4. #3 mawi2012, 16.09.2020
    mawi2012

    mawi2012 Meister der Beiträge

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    Hello,
    the oxygen sensor is not needed. it has only monitor function.

    The pressure from the reducer has almost 1.0-1.3 bar, that means the different pressure between injector an map. The pressure in petrol operation is no valid value, to see the pressure, it must in working on LPG.

    The vacuum hose on reducer make sure, that the different pressure is constant.

    The AEB025 may be defect, but if the pressure value are plausible, i think, its ok.

    Show the map, please.
    Gruß Martin
     
  5. mc1000

    mc1000 AutogasTestSchreiber

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    Hi Rohwi, Martin!
    Thank you for replying back so fast. I will try to provide some answers below. Understood most of your answers now and i also studied how the system interfaces with the original petrol installation.

    "What kind of injectors are they ? Valtek ? "
    MC1000: I assume the are the original injectors as they are green (not a proper indication) and 3ohm resistance markings.

    "Didi you set the stroke to 0,5mm? That is important for correct working."
    MC1000: No, i did not. The service guy only changed the spring and the piston. Coils remained the same. I think the repair kit was from Valtek.

    The reducer recorded pressures from 1.5 to 2.2 Bar... Or so.

    "The vacuum hose on reducer make sure, that the different pressure is constant."
    Then i need to check if the second hose is properly connected to reducer.

    "Show the map, please."
    Will do. I need to get back home and will diagnose again the system. Will put up the map here. Will post all the screens with relevant info here, as well.

    Thank you, once again, for all your help !!!
     
  6. #5 mawi2012, 16.09.2020
    mawi2012

    mawi2012 Meister der Beiträge

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    A question is, will the absolute or different pressure showing in software? I don’t know.
     
  7. #6 mc1000, 16.09.2020
    Zuletzt bearbeitet: 16.09.2020
    mc1000

    mc1000 AutogasTestSchreiber

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    Hi again !
    The map is here:

    I also made a video recording of how does it change the values.

    The car was not moving at all. Engine was just started up.
    I need to mention that i have no issues running on petrol. It's working as it should.

    "A question is, will the absolute or different pressure showing in software? I don’t know."
    I don't really know what to say. The pressure of gas is measured thourgh AEB025 sensor and the input for this is taken from the injection rail, connected to Pres. nozzle port of the sensor. The V. port of the sensor is connected to intake admission and to reducer (i only checked visually the hose and looks ok).

    How to reduce the gas presure to 1.0-1.3Bar ? I saw, on the internet, that on the reducer i should have a screw...Is this correct?
     

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  8. #7 mawi2012, 17.09.2020
    mawi2012

    mawi2012 Meister der Beiträge

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    The AEB025 measured the map an absolute pressure, the question is, what show the software at press.gas? I think, the absolute pressure, that means, if the map is higher, the absolute also will be higher, but difference will equal. In this case, the pressure is about 1,4 bar. May be, its ok. You have the reducer replaced? May be, the pressure is now to high. You can adjust the pressure at a screw on the reducer, but not at all types of reducer. Dont know, what reducer you have.

    Its possible, the mixture is to rich, the map an injection times seams to high on idle.
     
  9. mc1000

    mc1000 AutogasTestSchreiber

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    Hi!
    Yes, the reduce was replaced to fit the new tank (this is what they told me). And it is replaced as i have the old one :D at home.
    How do i fine tune the map to fit the correct injection?

    Thank you!
     
  10. #9 mawi2012, 17.09.2020
    mawi2012

    mawi2012 Meister der Beiträge

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    If you reduce the pressure at reducer, the mixture goes lean, I think, that’s better way to try. Could you read the trim value?
     
  11. mc1000

    mc1000 AutogasTestSchreiber

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    Hi,
    If you refer to stft1 and ltft1 when you ask about trim:
    Values on lpg below:
    STFT1: -100
    LTFT1: 16.4
    Values on petrol below:
    STFT1: -4.7
    LTFT1: 16.4
    On petrol these values are changing often while i am standing or driving. On LPG they don't really change that much.

    Other things i noticed is for the lambda probes.
    On Petrol they tend to change between 0.2 and 0.9v, depending on the situation.
    On LPG they jump to 0.9 and remain there ...

    So i think it injects too much gas ?

    Thanks!
     
  12. #11 mawi2012, 17.09.2020
    mawi2012

    mawi2012 Meister der Beiträge

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    Yes, it seams to rich, reduce the pressure and watch the trims.
     
  13. mc1000

    mc1000 AutogasTestSchreiber

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    Hi !
    Sorry for my long absence but i was unable to work on the car last weeks. I did managed to find the screw to reduce the pressure and i did reduced it but there is something wrong there.
    I found some hoses that need to be replaced. The vacuum hose was broken at the reducer. Also i need to re-make the electrical wires as they were installed bad.
    Also, i think that the reservoir sensor is not configured correctly.
    I have made a short shopping list:
    - 4mm hose with end fittings
    - 5mm hose with end fittings (in case that the one of 4mm is not proper)
    - T junction for vacuum hose that should split from the intake to AEB25 sensor and the reducer.
    - Gas temperature sensor. But here i need your advice.

    I want to replace the current hose as it is very short. Also i intend to remake the connection on the gas hose because it is poorly fixed and the gas filter is scrubbing against metal parts and after some time it gets a hole.
    Reducer is Tomasetto Achille AT09.

    Do all gas temperature sensor share the same values ?
    The gas temperature sensor that i have is integrated in the injection rail. The replacement that i could find is T like and it should be fitted on the hose coming from reducer to the injection rail. This is what i intend to buy: gazmagazin.ro/en/sensors/ac-stag-gas-temperature-sensor.html .

    Thank you!
     
  14. #13 mawi2012, 13.10.2020
    mawi2012

    mawi2012 Meister der Beiträge

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    Temperature Sensor are different. What is the problem with your actually sensor? You should messure the resitance of the could (20-25°C) sensor, thats the value for the search to a new sensor. (2,2 kOhm / 2,5 kOhm / 4,7 kOhm / 5 kOhm /10 kOhm).

    If the vacuum hose to reducer is broken, the pressure will not correct in Idle mode (to high).
     
  15. mc1000

    mc1000 AutogasTestSchreiber

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    ECU is reporting wrong values for the gas temperature. I found that sensor's wires were... twisted and isolated with regular band. Because of that those two wires were in contact and sensor reported 20-40-60 and then - 80 / - 20 degrees or so. At the moment, i repaired the wires but it is not a permanent fix. I still suspect that the sensor might be bad.

    About the vacuum hose, you should be right. I cut the broken part and remade the connection to reducer. This morning it worked ok on gas but i need to buy new hose as this is quite short and i want to re-make the entire connection to MAP sensor and intake.

    I need to find a sunny day over the weekend to check the gas level sensor from the gas reservoir and the hose + electrical wires. I found that there is big mess and the wires are not properly protected.
     
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  17. mc1000

    mc1000 AutogasTestSchreiber

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    Hi !
    I measured (yesterday, ~18-19 degrees) and i got around 4.5k on the sensor. It's a bit hard these days, as i have low temperatures outside. Will try to make additional measures and, hopefully, the sensor will be the one with 4.7K...
     
  18. #16 mawi2012, 26.10.2020
    mawi2012

    mawi2012 Meister der Beiträge

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    I think so
     
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Emmegas ICS-03 does not hold idle or does not inject correctly

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